Bench vice hardware, front vices, tail vices, screw spindles. And I dealt a deathblow to racking a long time ago by an adjustable shimming device that hangs underneath the bench when not in use. Yes, they all sag a bit. Its other term is tail vise because it is at the right or left side end of the workbench. The inner end of the jaw also allows shorter workpieces to be clamped vertically between it and notch in the benchtop. Instead I do as Chris does with doe’s foot and batons. Can you enlighten me on what a tail vise is really for, and why it is necessary? I routinely clamp tall or thick boards at least 1 1/2″ above the bench top without ever holding them in place. • If an end vise spans less than the full width of the benchtop, install it flush with one edge (rather than centering it) so you can easily hand-plane stock held with bench dogs. Or the vise sags, and the dogs have to be struck with a mallet to get the work resting on the benchtop. Since this was a manufactured bench as opposed to one constructed in a shop by hand, I can see how that would happen. Second, with respect to the metal bench dogs, it sounds to me like the slots were too large for the dogs, way too large. Life is good. And dogs won’t stay above the benchtop, which requires three hands to clamp a board. For sticking mouldings, I place a 2×4 against the planing stop and secure it with a batten, creating a simple sticking board. Note the two screws visible near the right end of the tail vise body. I also use batons a lot, as well as holdfasts. Anything longer than my front vise goes to the tail vise, but my bench isn’t that long, so instead of clamping end to end, I clamp side to side in my front vise. I over engineered mine to counter sagging and even made it adjustable per seasonal shifting. The Traditional Tail Vise - Followup: 12/21/2010: Last week I wrote about how much I like a traditional tailvise and I got some requests for details. I’ll get into that a little at the end. I use it a lot. Machined from Cold Rolled Steel bar stock, the sliding If you’re interested in exploring the pros and cons of workbench vises then you probably would be interested in my book “Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use, Revised Edition.” In that book, which might be available at your library if you don’t want to own it, I discusses all manner of vises and show how to get the most out of them. I’m not going to try to convert anyone to any type of vise, I just like to see them all get a fair shake. Two predrilled mounting holes 7- 9- and 10-inch models offered As my favorite woodworking journalist, I’ve never felt the need to criticize your work, hope things go back to normal. Have a LN tail vise, installed it last year, and it’s the only vise I’d make sure was on any bench future bench build. Re: tail vise? It stretches across the full end of my bench and doesn’t notch into the benchtop. The length of the cavity measured from the inside of the end cap shouldn’t be less than 13-7/8", otherwise the screw will bottom out at the end of the cavity before the flange contacts the outside of the end cap. Moreover there is no way for it to sag unless the whole bench sags, and the bench dogs are the same style as the LN wooden ones and they work fine. Clamp a board too tightly using any vise, clamp, wedge, etc, is asking for problems in a whole bunch of areas. I do have a few comments though in support of the tail vise. Have you ever worked on a bench with a Frank Klausz style tail vise? It has one large control screw, and its moveable wooden jaw has a series of bench dog holes along the top that line up with the front row of dog holes on the bench. This means that you can clamp wood in the vice and saw through it in one go without repositioning the wood. The vise sagged after regular use, the steel dogs constantly slipped back into their holes (no matter how I bent them) and the vise got in the way of many operations on the right side of the workbench. I never installed a tail vise, and have never seemed to understand why it is that I need one. Really useful holding things in a vertical position without the chop getting in the way. And if you have a tail vise and adore it like your firstborn, then Godspeed to you. Woodworkers built furniture for centuries without a tail vise. If you make the vise correctly it straightens itself out with light Clamping pressure. If I don’t insert shims to keep the wood from flexing, I can’t get the top flat. The end plates are symmetrical, so you can install the T-handle and quick-release lever in a right- or left-handed orientation, allowing the vise to be mounted at either end of the bench. He's a hand-tool enthusiast (though he uses power tools, too). However, this does not impact our recommendations. Bench dog holes at each end and one in the middle of the jaw, with three rows of corresponding holes in the bench top. This would interfere with the using the tail vise and so I never in stalled one. Seems like a no brainer! In the overall view of the tailvise, an identical pair of screws is visible near the left end of the vise. , I was wondering how much sag a wagon vise you give — it looks like it should not cause a lot of problems (aside from the major issue of fitting the thing). – Simple Woodworking Projects, Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use, Revised Edition, Infinity Professional Router Table Package Review, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA, http://www.woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wood-talk-190-we-all-have-vices/, https://paulsellers.com/2013/03/the-paul-sellers-vise-clamp-system-or/. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. The first evidence we have of the invention of a tail vise is a drawing in a codex from 1505 in what is now Germany. Round dogs and steel dogs are something I find problematic. You didn’t mention the maker of the bench, probably for a good reason. Code 300672. As a woodworker, I’ve come to expect you to thoroughly review specific product, and as a journalist, that you stick with empirical data and present it in an unbiased, well structured manner……. The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. A wagon vise does this as well. All four can be used for face-planing boards, but the tail vise has several For wide boards, I put a batten across the workbench top – it rests against the stop and is held by a holdfast. Others call it an "end vise". system for a Tail Vise. It’s slow. I’m always trying to joint faces where the other side of the work is not flat. My workbench doesn’t have a traditional tail vise. An adjustable front stop allows it to function as a standard or tail vise, and as a safety measure, the tommy bar is designed to fail before the unit itself breaks. I wasn’t impressed. For me this is this ultimate positioning. Save up to 68% on 7 issues of woodworking projects and tricks. Work is grasped between the main jaws, one of which is the dog-legged end of the bench itself and, as such, offers a particularly sturdy clamping surface. Not a big deal. Jul 31, 2017 - The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. It can hold a rail in such a way to allow you to tap a leg off without busting a dowel. I went with an end vise with wood jaws as wide as the bench. So I do I secure boards on the bench to plane them? I built my bench about 30 years ago and included a tail vice which I very rarely use. I am kind of tempted by the Benchcrafted tail vise but, cost aside, it needs to be pretty damn useful to justify the trouble. End Vise - disapointing. As for my tail vise, on my current, commercial bench it is just a wooded face vice in the tail vice position. There are many woodworker who need a prescription for: “NoViceAtAll”. Tail vises are characterized by a jaw operated by a single screw, enclosed by the jaw and threaded into an end cap mounted to the bench. . Chris – I am curious on your thoughts in using the tail vise for greenwood carved bowls. My tail vise is covered 99.44% of the time by a “sharpening station” (laid over the top – not cinched in the vise), which is the best use of the vice. Subscribe ». Could you consider an article on a related subject to the one you are discussing here – namely, the optimum placement of the holes in the bench so that the strategies you are mentioning can be fully utilized with your holdfasts, etc.? Fair enough assessment, but you do hit on the biggest tail vise issues as user error, or incorrectly built tail vises or dogs. I honestly think the Benchcrafted tail vise is pretty cool and I like to have stuff and not use it, rather than need to use it and not have it, but the fitting is a big job…. First off it came with bent bolts which were promptly replaced by Woodcraft. The wagon vise is also known as an enclosed tail vise. If you use hand tools a lot a front vise is very useful for drawers and dovetailing. A cut sheet in the product description would be helpful, as well as a tentative drawing of the block structures to turn it into a completed tail/end vise in the shipped literature. My friend had purchased one several years ago from Woodcraft and the same vise was made in Germany and reflected Quality. The small handle on the Gordon tail vise does not lend itself to easily over tightening, at least not for my 75 year old hands with a … Sometimes it because it gives me different access to something being sawn or held. Out of economic necessity, my first three workbenches didn’t have tail vises, and so I was thrilled when I was assigned to review a full-size European workbench with all the bells and whistles, including a tail vise and massive square steel dogs. Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. So if it weren’t a good vise, he probably would have abandoned it long ago. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/popwood_logos-01.png, https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/C4-EuropeanBenches-113x113.jpg, Shaker Storage & Shelving Shop Resources Collection, © 2020 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved, Shop Blog, Woodworking Blogs, Woodworking Books, Against Perfection, Precision or Accuracy, Free Woodworking Downloads From Lee Valley, I Can Do That! End or Tail Vise. The same type of vise also protrudes past the end of the bench as its opened. Some people build a bench with a very large double screw end vise and no front vise, but there is no cost savings with that. Based on my experience with the new Lie Nielsen tail vise, could not disagree more with your tail vise comments, but lay that aside for a moment…. I make mine long enough to use almost 6″ over the bench top when I need to. A front vise, like the Rockler 9" Quick Release Workbench Vise , is most often stationed at the left corner of the long edge of the work bench. I’m not a one vise suits all work sort of guy, but I do like a good tail vise. It is also a "tail" vise since it’s mounted on the "tail end" of the bench. Is a tail vise absolutely necessary? In my opinion the left the right side of the bench is mostly used for storage or as Bob Easton says sharpening while working on the left side. Chris, I love it. When using “fenced” planes, such as a plow plane, I have a number of strategies depending on the width of the work that involve a holdfast and occasionally a handscrew clamp. But the screw is a regular steel vise … One for every dog hole, and they recess 1/32″ below the top. It has one large control screw, and its moveable wooden jaw has a series of bench dog holes along the top that line … For maximum vise capacity, the slot portion where the dog block runs can be up to 17" long. (I am right handed.) "You mentioned that your mechanism is wood." for crafting furniture, I would have to agree that a tail vise is a luxury that you can do without. When I need to traverse boards, I use a doe’s foot and a planing stop. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? However, … Now know why Krenov called the tail vise the “main vise” and it has much more functionality than my old wagon vise,which I liked a lot. The vise is wood - it runs in a wooden track. We may receive a commission when you use our affiliate links. Aug 31, 2018 - The Wagon Vise, End Vise, Tail Vise VX20W features quick action and is designed to operate in a 3/4″ to 1-3/4″ wide slot in the bench top, Made in Michigan. Or, work can … When students use them, they apply too much pressure, bowing the work off the benchtop. Never had a need for the steel versions. The tail vise should certainly handle longer pieces. I. Christopher, I built your 18th century bench using five large maple boards for the top. Benchdogs require a vise, and when I build a workbench, I like to locate that vise on the end. Editor Christopher Schwarz and Managing Editor take you on a quick tour of this new piece of bench hardware. Even if not, the sag is barely noticeable In use with a good tail vise. One advantage the traditional tail vise has over the wagon vise is the open-front jaws. Being inside the legs means the vise is suspended between two fixed points and that removes any tendency to flex at all. But some cultures – French, English, Chinese and Japanese – resisted the tail vise until the 19th century when it became ubiquitous on many Western-style workbenches. It is slower to adjust, so I have added extra dog holes in the range I most often need in order to reduce set up time. They can be shoulder vices, front (face) vices, tail vices, or any combination of the above, depending on your ideas! I need to clarify this. Andy Rae: Known as a tail vise, this type of vise has two primary holding purposes. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. So glad someone finally said it. Chris Marshall: A tail vise is usually mounted on the right-hand end of a workbench with a jaw that notches into the corner of the benchtop. The vise is mounted in the middle of the large jaw and the end of the bench, and if doing it again, I would use the twin screw end vise from Lee Valley. My opinion differs on several of your points. Whether you're upgrading an old workbench or building a new one, you'll need vices. Chris, I guess this shows why people are different. The face vise is a little harder to do this and avoiding broken dowels is a pretty good time saver! But again, to each his own, Just my thoughts. Clamping too tight is bad practice for everything, not just tail vises. I haven’t been swayed in my opinion of them. Since that first bench, I’ve had the opportunity to work on workbenches all over the world with the best tail vises – wooden, steel, tubular, you name it. They are from iron and features replaceable steel top jaws, as well as pipe jaws. Built into the end of a bench (almost always the right- hand end), the end or tail vise, as it is also called, can be used to clamp workpieces to the bench between its jaws. It is based on traditional, European-style tail vises, but we made some modifications to make it function in a simpler, more efficient fashion. That being said, I think you are underselling the versatility of the tail vise. I don’t. This is not a review of a specific tail vise or a specific bench, and why write such a review blasting all tail vises, and why do it now? Like my Benchcrafted leg vise, but also like twin screw vises, and even cabinet style face vises, might choose anyone of them for my next build, but could not live without my LN tail vise now that I’ve installed one. In particular, I would think the discussion would be what is the optimum placement of the holes if the goal is to minimize the number of holes. They should be long, square, and have a springy tongue. The tail vise was embraced in Germany and in many Scandinavian countries. Gravity and the force of the plane keeps it in position. Traditional tail or end vises are typically mounted on the front right corner of the bench and the earliest known record of them is from the early 16 th century. Chris is the former editor of Popular Woodworking Magazine. He continues to blog and publish woodworking books at Lost Art Press. Oh, and when they have to plane boards of many different lengths, they have to move the dogs all around and screw the vise in and out a lot. The Lie-Nielsen Tail Vise gives you simplicity of design and function with the ruggedness needed for a hardworking vise. ... for German and Scandinavian Vise Screw fits code 300659. To separate the body of the tailvise from the base plate, the left-hand pair of screws must be removed with an Allen (hex) wrench. Old school tail vise build, with reclaimed old growth Douglas Fir and white Eucalyptus hardwood. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/case-tail-vises The end vise; Front Vise . Medium Duty Bench Vises. I use round dogs just like you recommend!. What??? – Rich Matselboba. I totally agree Chris! This style of tail vise is also referred to as a wagon wheel end vise. It just all depends on what sort of work you do, and the methods you use to get the work done as to what kind of vise you are going to prefer. It means you can use it as a tail vise or regular vise depending on your ongoing project. The pre-drilled holes in this tool allow for faster and easier mounting on a workbench. . I agree in principle but I would be lying if I said my tail vise is useless. This is a traditional European type of vise and is very resistant to sag. The tail vise is in my experience, most used for planing boards flat. ... One more thing about this vise is that it comes with an end stop that ensures there is no excessive opening of the vise. I keep seeing tail vises in the projects shown in woodworking magazines. If the workpiece is free to move (in other words, if it’s just pressing against a doe’s foot or batten) then the workpiece shifts around as I work and the shims don’t stay in place. Certainly all metal vises are stronger and able to withstand more abuse, but Frank’s vise served him for over 50 years, his father, his grandfather . Never known you to do such negative generalizations, it’s unbecoming and frankly, very disappointing. But I’m sure other readers have great uses for their tail vises and wouldn’t trade them. We may receive a commission from sales referred by our links; however, we have carefully selected these products for their usefulness and quality. That will depend on who you ask and the kind of work you do, but in my opinion, the more options you have for clamping workpieces securely and easily to your bench, the better. Most modern workbenches don't use a traditional tail vise, they usually use some version of a face vise just at the end of the workbench, or some sort of wagon vise. Properly fitted, bench dogs will take a long time to wear down hardwood before they begin to slip. I have a twin-screw vise on the end instead. Seems like it’s a century old matter. Shannon Rogers also mentioned it in the woodtalkshow some time ago (http://www.woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wood-talk-190-we-all-have-vices/) and referred to this video. These are perfect for various applications. 11:33 PM, December 14, 2010 But if you are a beginner who is contemplating building that first workbench, I’d like to make the case that maybe your first workbench can be simpler, less expensive and easier to build. You can see the same here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA published in 2013 by the English Woodworker with the title “The Holdfast and the Batten – Tail Vice Alternative For Hand Tool Woodworking”. I would take it back and get a wonder dog or something else. Dogs…if you build them correctly they stay put. Made a couple of them, one for the face vise and the other for the tail. I agree with George, as it's an excellent size for my workbench also, which is 74 x 30. So, is your opinion focused mainly on a tail vise for furniture work (which I suspect) or in general? After a while of having this tail vise I realized I barely use it. Alternative uses of the tail vise…tenon cutting, cutting dovetails, holding jigs and fixtures for pretty much everything, clamping, pulling casework and chairs apart with even pressure, squaring frames and drawers precisely, and a whole bunch else! However, it comes in downright handy in disassembling chairs in need of a reglue. There are four options for an end vise: a traditional tail vise, a wagon vise, a metal face vise mounted on the end, and a twin-screw vise. I know that people who love tail vises will howl at this blog entry. I prefer it over a traditional tail vise, because the added jaw length makes it more versatile for me. For a medium-duty, no-frills bench vise, the Wilton’s 11106 is worth checking into. (Thanks). The bench legs are indeed 9″ from the end, which will place the vise around 15″ to the start of the vise. They’re an option, of course, but they are by no means standard equipment, like tires. While these approaches allow you to clamp lots of long things and are reasonably versatile I don't think they are nearly as useful as a traditional "L" shaped shoulder or tail vise. I have been following the class at LN this past week and also on Peter’s blog and it would appear they make extensive use of the tail vise for holding the bowls while carving. Now that you mention it, the only time I remember using my tail vice is as an extension. Sometimes, it is because there’s something in the main vise and there’s a quick second job to do. NB Vice is the British spelling. On the bench under construction it will be the new Veritas quick release tail vise I picked up at WIA. About 90 percent of my handplaning is done against a planing stop on the left end of my bench. The term wagon vise did not derive from our use of a handwheel, as in “wagon wheel” but rather as a translation of the French term describing this general style of vise. I placed the Benchcrafted wagon wheel tail vise in the right front corner. . Hey, we had to pick something! When I built my workbench many years ago, I installed a Record vise on the front. The Benchcrafted Tail Vise was first conceived to meet the needs of a Roubo-style workbench with a top at least 4" thick, though it can also be installed on thinner benchtops and can be retrofitted to an existing bench. History of the Wagon Vise. Second I had to reface the part which has the female threads in it. The face vice is fitted to the right side of the bench with the jaws outside the bench by about 30mm. We recommend a 3" wide end cap. Heavy-Duty Bench Vises. Why Am I Telling You This? I am also found of the Paul Sellers vise-clamp system that I modified for the Roubo leg vise. Narrow stock goes right against the planing stop. The alignment of these bench dog holes enables a tail vise to secure workpieces or panels that would be too long to clamp across the benchtop using a front vise and dogs. I don’t have a tail vise, but I do have a second face vise at the end of my bench, oriented like a tail vise. But I use it the same way as I would a tail vise — to clamp long workpieces or large panels to the benchtop or to secure pieces like rails and stiles vertically. I found myself thinking along the same lines the other day as I worked a 4′ square white oak table top with a 5-1/2: ‘Perhaps having a couple of holdfasts to dodge and a few blocks of scrap thrown in to reposition every time I want to rotate the work would make things ever so much more interesting that these boringly effective bench dogs…and frozen pizza really is better than a pie from Carlo’s.’, Similar thoughts this AM…’After 13 years and tens of thousands of hours of use, shouldn’t this tail vise be sagging by now…what could I possibly have done to deserve this smoothly functioning vise which demands so little in the way of my attention?’.
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